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Recorded at	October 24, 2022
Event	TEDWomen Presents
Duration (min:sec)	23:44
Video Type	TED Stage Talk
Words per minute	167.44 slow
Readability (FK)	65.39 very easy
Speaker	Tamana Ayazi and Kat Craig


1	00:04	Kat Craig: Tamana, welcome.
2	00:05	It's so wonderful to have you here today.
3	00:07	Thank you for joining us.
4	00:09	We're going to be talking about your directorial feature debut "In Her Hands."
5	00:14	I can't wait to hear all about that process of making such a beautiful film.
6	00:20	But before we start, can you tell us a little bit about what it was like when you were younger in Afghanistan, what it was like growing up?
7	00:27	Tamana Ayazi: Thank you so much. It's lovely to be here with you.
8	00:31	Some of the good memories I have from my childhood [are] being able to play soccer on the street with boys, with my friends.
9	00:38	And also I used to have a bike.
10	00:40	I used to go out every evening with my friends to bring groceries, to just go, you know, spend some time together and just be there and exist.
11	00:54	KC: And that very active life has continued for you.
12	00:58	I know that you started making films at a really young age, when you were still in high school, is that right?
13	01:03	TA: Yes, I was in 11th grade when I started.
14	01:06	I was part of a program called Citizen Journalism and Documentary Filmmaking, and I was representing my hometown, Mazar, north of Afghanistan.
15	01:15	And that’s how I started making films.
16	01:18	And it was -- we were supposed to make one documentary, one short documentary per month from pre-production to post-production.
17	01:26	And we were very excited about that.
18	01:28	And it opened other doors.
19	01:30	I was able to go to the places I have never been and I was able to meet people, communicate, listen to them and try to tell their stories.
20	01:40	KC: Let's talk a little bit about "In Her Hands."
21	01:42	Can you summarize a little bit about what the film is about and why you chose to tell that story?
22	01:49	TA: The film is about a strong woman who was trying to make a change in her community.
23	01:54	And like many other Afghans from my generation, Zarifa Ghafari was trying to make a change in her own hometown of Maidan Shar, Maidan Wardak.
24	02:04	And she was quite famous in Afghanistan, so I was really curious to know about her more.
25	02:10	So that's how I visited her.
26	02:12	And then we were trying to make a film not only about who Zarifa was, but also the country itself.
27	02:20	So we tried to include other characters to be able to tell a story of the country, not only one person.
28	02:27	And the journey of the country towards 2021.
29	02:41	(Video) Zarifa Ghafari: In the name of Allah. May God protect us.
30	02:57	Driver: I’m Mayor Zarifa Ghafari’s driver, and I guard her 24/7.
31	03:03	And I'm very happy to be serving a woman who so completely serves her country and her people.
32	03:21	ZG: After we pass these deserts, we’ll feel safer.
33	03:30	Slow down. Drive slowly.
34	03:35	Cars are heading towards us.
35	03:39	(Horn blares)
36	03:45	Driver: I drive above the speed limit, one hand on the steering wheel, one on my pistol, because the road I drive Zarifa on every day between Kabul and Maidan Shar is controlled by the Taliban.
37	04:04	She is a champion for me and our people.
38	04:12	I live every second of my life with the memory of her.
39	04:25	KC: So the film spans a period -- I think you started working on the project in 2020 and Zarifa, the main character, is the youngest female mayor in Afghanistan, in the capital city of a province that has always had a strong Taliban presence.
40	04:43	And you did go out and you filmed in the mountains with the Taliban.
41	04:49	You said earlier that one of your favorite parts of filmmaking is talking with people and telling their stories.
42	04:55	It must have been difficult meeting people whose views you don't share.
43	05:00	Tell us a little bit about how you managed to build those relationships and how you were able to film there.
44	05:08	TA: I think filmmaking and storytelling is more about listening to people, understanding them, no matter how different they are.
45	05:16	So this is how -- When we started working on this documentary, "In Her Hands," that's how it started.
46	05:24	So with Zarifa, for me, it was easier because she was a woman, she was from my own generation and we were trying to make a change in our communities, using different tools or different ways.
47	05:36	But then also we thought that's important to include also the Taliban, because there was peace talks going on between the US government and the Taliban, but Afghans were not included.
48	05:48	And we, as Afghan woman, knew that we will be more affected than anyone if there is any change in the country, especially if Taliban will come back to power.
49	06:00	KC: When you met with some of the senior leadership in the region of the Taliban, how did they respond to you?
50	06:07	Were you able to have conversations and did their opinion of you, do you think, change over the course of the filming?
51	06:15	TA: When I first started contacting the Taliban, so basically we did it through the leadership.
52	06:21	We contacted them to be able to go there and film them.
53	06:25	It took us some time, they did not respond to messages on time.
54	06:28	So it took us weeks and months to get permission.
55	06:31	But then once I was there, because I was a woman, and then after -- they said after 25 or more years, there was an Afghan filmmaker, a woman on the mountains with them.
56	06:43	So they were quite shocked to see me there.
57	06:46	So when I was doing the first interview, they tried to not look at me.
58	06:51	But then I remember by the time they started, you know, being more comfortable.
59	06:57	And then at the end, I remember when I was saying goodbye to one of the leaders, one of the commanders, he was blushing and he wanted to shake hands with me.
60	07:07	And then that time I wasn't sure. I was like, what will happen?
61	07:10	Because I see all these other Taliban commanders and Taliban soldiers, and they had their guns with them.
62	07:16	So I was like, what if I shake hands and something happens to me?
63	07:21	And I remember our local producer who visited Taliban so many times before, he kept saying, "Tamana, be careful, don't do that."
64	07:29	So, yeah.
65	07:30	KC: And did you shake his hand?
66	07:33	TA: He didn't want to do that at the end. So yeah, we left at that.
67	07:36	KC: Yeah.
68	07:41	(Video) Solider 1: The government has failed the people of Afghanistan.
69	07:47	Ask the people here whether the government has done anything for them.
70	07:53	Solider 2: We are from this country, and we will serve it.
71	08:09	Solider 3: Brave Mujahideen!
72	08:11	Solider 4: Until we establish Islamic rule across the whole planet, we will not surrender to anyone.
73	08:20	I have been put here to fight people.
74	08:24	I have been instructed to kill people.
75	08:27	To destroy people, behead people.
76	08:31	Until they believe there is no god but Allah.
77	08:41	Musafer: I’ve fought in these mountains since the US invasion in 2001.
78	08:47	Look at me, I am 36 years old, but everyone thinks I am 40 or 50 years old.
79	09:02	KC: This is with the same people who were sending written death threats to Zarifa, the main character in the film, as early as 2017.
80	09:12	Tell us a bit about the risks that both she and you faced working in a province that had such a strong Taliban presence.
81	09:24	TA: It just came back. I can still feel it.
82	09:28	It was not an easy experience because you know that any moment you might get killed.
83	09:36	And there were times when we filmed at night, days and nights in Maidan Wardak, I was with her and there was fighting going on between [the] Afghan army and the Taliban.
84	09:46	And also, whenever we were in the car, I remember she used to hold my hand really tight, saying that “Tamana, what if there is a sticky bomb in this side of the car or that side of the car?”
85	09:59	But, you know, when you're going through so many crises, you find ways to deal with it.
86	10:06	And then we try to remember the good things about, you know, being there.
87	10:11	And then I used to say that, "Zarifa, we are very close to Kabul."
88	10:15	It happened most of the time on the way between Maidan Wardak and Kabul.
89	10:19	Or I remember when we were in the city and we lost a few friends in Taliban sticky bombs explosions.
90	10:26	And we were down most of the time, but that doesn’t mean that there was no life.
91	10:31	We found ways to deal with it.
92	10:32	We found ways to be happy.
93	10:34	We found ways to find solutions, at least to raise our voice.
94	10:38	I remember we did campaigns.
95	10:40	We did protests to -- make people, our leaders, and the world leaders, listen to what was happening and what was waiting for us in the future.
96	10:53	But unfortunately, I think we ended up where none of us were ready.
97	11:01	(Video) ZG: Whenever I meet people from different communities, I ask them to educate their children because education is the only way out of this situation in Afghanistan.
98	11:18	Hello, how are you? Are you well?
99	11:21	We thank you for coming here.
100	11:25	Thank you.
101	11:30	Our girls do study. There...
102	11:34	There are some classes.
103	11:43	ZG: As a girl, I studied. I have a bachelor’s and a master’s degree.
104	11:49	When I was studying, I had to walk an hour each way to my school in Paktika.
105	11:56	There were many suicide attacks and fights.
106	11:59	My father told me not to go anymore.
107	12:03	So I started going to school secretly.
108	12:05	I was going to school in secret after he went to the office.
109	12:09	It was my lifetime dream to see that my parents are proud of my reputation and my achievements.
110	12:23	So please educate your daughters and send them to school.
111	12:26	If you educate one girl or woman, you save ten generations.
112	12:34	KC: You spoke about how many women in Afghanistan were actively campaigning to continue to move forward and not to fall back into old ways.
113	12:48	As the filming progressed and you realized that the Taliban were gaining power and more likely to come back to a position of strength, how did that feel for you and Zarifa?
114	13:01	Did it change when you were in villages and cities?
115	13:05	Could you tell there was something different in the air?
116	13:08	TA: Whenever I was in Kabul, I was not able to see the change because everything was OK.
117	13:14	Everything was alright.
118	13:16	But whenever I went to the villages, to other provinces ...
119	13:20	And I remember coming back, I came with a lot of information, but I was not really able to tell even my own family.
120	13:26	I didn't want my sisters to be scared of the future.
121	13:29	I didn't want my mother to be scared of her future and my future.
122	13:34	And if I have told them that, OK, I saw that these things were happening in the provinces, especially meeting Taliban, I knew that they were progressing.
123	13:42	And I remember whenever I went to other provinces in the past, I wasn't really sure about it
124	13:48	but it was eye-opening to see all, you know, the Taliban, people like me, ordinary Afghans, all of us, we were trying to build a country in our own ways, but ended up destroying the whole country.
125	14:05	And the -- The flags changed when we crossed from one territory to another territory.
126	14:13	There was a republic flag, and then there was [a] Taliban flag.
127	14:16	So we knew that there is a difference.
128	14:18	And I remember, Zarifa and I, and other friends, female friends, we talked about it a lot.
129	14:26	We were like, we need to push for it. We need to do something to change it.
130	14:30	We knew, we had the fear in our heart that Taliban might come back, but we thought they will be part of the government.
131	14:41	And the way it happened -- when the government collapsed, it was not only the government, it was -- the people, full of hopes and dreams.
132	14:52	And the future collapsed in front of us and we couldn't do anything about it.
133	14:58	We did have fear, but we didn't know that it would end up the way it did.
134	15:03	KC: And eventually it got so bad that Zarifa had to leave, she left.
135	15:09	She came back. She had to leave again.
136	15:11	You have had to leave.
137	15:13	And it's something that very few people have to make those difficult decisions.
138	15:19	It must have taken a lot.
139	15:23	Do you plan to go back if you can?
140	15:26	Would you return?
141	15:30	TA: After Toronto for one week my heart was really calm and I was thinking about it, because since I left Afghanistan, the fire was there, you know?
142	15:40	And when I left, I left my soul in Afghanistan with my loved ones, with my country, with my homeland, with everything I had and built for all these years.
143	15:54	The way we left, we didn’t know that it [would] happen.
144	15:58	And I remember when I left, I did not say bye to my loved ones.
145	16:03	I still remember my family.
146	16:06	I still remember my friends.
147	16:10	I told them that, you know, this is not a goodbye.
148	16:12	I cannot say goodbye.
149	16:13	You don't know what will happen.
150	16:15	I will come back.
151	16:16	I will go to the airport.
152	16:18	I don’t know [if] it will happen or not.
153	16:20	I will be back.
154	16:21	And I was making excuses because I didn't want to leave my country.
155	16:24	That was home. That was everything.
156	16:27	Yeah, I kept my passport.
157	16:32	But yeah, that's what keeps me alive.
158	16:37	And people might have different dreams.
159	16:38	Some people might think that, OK, I want to travel.
160	16:41	I want to make the best fun, I want to do this and that.
161	16:45	But my biggest dream is to go back to Afghanistan and live the way I used to live.
162	16:51	KC: We all hope that that will happen sooner rather than later.
163	16:55	But for now, we know that the situation is very difficult for many women.
164	17:03	You came to Europe and even here we've spoken about the everyday sexism that you experience and how exhausting it is to educate men on issues around gender equality.
165	17:21	Are there parallels?
166	17:22	Do you see any opportunities for us to learn from each other?
167	17:27	Because I know many people in the audience will feel your pain and recognize that exhaustion.
168	17:32	How do we learn from each other?
169	17:34	How do we work together as women globally to create change?
170	17:39	TA: Sexism is everywhere and we need to come together to work on it.
171	17:46	But the only thing I would say [is] that it’s tiring and exhausting, but we should not give up. We cannot stop.
172	17:52	KC: Absolutely.
173	17:54	TA: So we need to have solidarity, to work on it together, to push for it.
174	18:00	KC: And hearing stories like yours, like Zarifa, there's an amazing line in the documentary where we follow her in such extraordinarily difficult circumstances and she's constantly under threat.
175	18:17	And she says, "Well, men have had 40-50 years to get this right
176	18:20	and they haven't yet done it right.
177	18:22	So I'm not going to give up."
178	18:24	Is that representative of the spirits of many women that you encountered in Afghanistan?
179	18:29	TA: The spirit of almost all the women I know in my country, including my grandmother, my mother, my friends.
180	18:38	All of us.
181	18:40	Because, yeah, war is ugly.
182	18:42	And it was the men who created the war.
183	18:45	It was the men who made peace.
184	18:47	We always pushed for it.
185	18:49	But then there was no space for us [at] the table, no matter how hard we pushed for it.
186	18:55	But it doesn't mean that we give up and it's done.
187	18:59	And we are, you know ... We made peace with that.
188	19:02	It was the spirit of the whole country.
189	19:04	It still is.
190	19:06	And it is the women who are [the] resistance in Afghanistan today.
191	19:11	They were protesting in solidarity with Iranian women in Kabul, in front of [the] Iranian embassy.
192	19:18	So yeah, I think the future is female.
193	19:22	It's us.
194	19:24	And we are the ones who can make change because we don't fight.
195	19:28	We don't care about ego.
196	19:30	We care about solutions.
197	19:33	KC: So all of the people listening today, inspired by your story, by the strength of women in Afghanistan, what can we do to support the struggle?
198	19:42	You said solidarity is key to change, and I couldn't agree more.
199	19:46	How do we work together?
200	19:48	What can we do to keep the plight of women in Afghanistan in the news and to make sure that one day you're able to return and do the wonderful work that you've been doing?
201	20:02	TA: I think women in Afghanistan need solidarity more than anything right now.
202	20:07	I remember I was interviewing women who were protesting because I was working on research for Amnesty International.
203	20:14	And whenever we talked, I was asking them why they started protesting and they said that, "Tamana, we lost everything we had.
204	20:23	We are not able to work.
205	20:25	We are not able to go out without a mahram, a man, family member, and we are not able to move freely, travel to other provinces, to countries outside Afghanistan without a man."
206	20:37	So it means that Taliban do not count women as humans or equal to men.
207	20:43	So there should be a man to validate that they exist.
208	20:48	And they say that, "We lost everything we had.
209	20:50	And that's why we are fighting.
210	20:52	We are not afraid to die, but it makes us happy and encourages us when we see women, no matter Afghans, non-Afghans from outside the country, supporting us.
211	21:07	And that's all we need."
212	21:08	And they were thanking me all the time for doing the interviews.
213	21:11	And they were like, "You listen to us and it's important for us."
214	21:16	So there is a need to come together and support the woman in Afghanistan, in Iran, or any part of the world, because all we fight for is our basic human rights.
215	21:31	I think it's really important to support the woman in Afghanistan or any other part of the world who are fighting for their basic rights.
216	21:38	It's 2022.
217	21:41	I know that women, we as women, we are political.
218	21:44	Our bodies are political.
219	21:45	Our opinions, whatever we say, whatever we do is political.
220	21:49	Women get criticized more than men, and no matter in which field.
221	21:55	And it's really important for all of us, no matter where in the world, to support those women protesting on the streets in Kabul and other provinces of Afghanistan.
222	22:07	And one of the ways we can do this, we can open a conversation about Afghanistan, so it's on the news again.
223	22:13	So people talk about it and we don't forget what's happening there.
224	22:18	I know that I was the lucky one who is here now, who is able to work.
225	22:22	But I also know that it was painful to leave.
226	22:27	But for them, because they are fighting, they need our support, solidarity.
227	22:33	And we need to put pressure on our governments, no matter where in the world, to change the policies, to put pressure on the Taliban, to change their policies and make a change.
228	22:46	KC: I think people can start by watching "In Her Hands."
229	22:50	It really is a beautiful film.
230	22:54	It's incredibly compelling.
231	22:57	And for me I found there were threads of hope in there.
232	23:01	So I think watching the film, understanding this incredible strength of the women of Afghanistan, will inspire many, many people.
233	23:12	And hopefully they will step up and show that solidarity and continue to raise awareness of the issue.
234	23:19	You no doubt will continue to do so.
235	23:23	I know you have more films, I think, that you're hoping to make in the future.
236	23:29	And we're just very, very lucky to have you, such a wonderful and compelling storyteller, to shine a light on this issue and educate us all so that we can stand in solidarity.
237	23:41	So thank you.
238	23:43	It's been wonderful listening to you today.
239	23:45	Thank you, Tamana.
240	23:46	TA: Thank you.

Tamana Ayazi and Kat Craig: The danger and devotion of fighting for women in Afghanistan